Actress and comedian Sasheer Zamata may be most familiar to comedy fans from her four years on Saturday Night Live, but she has kept busy on-screen since then, too — co-starring for two seasons on Hulu’s WOKE, and for the past three seasons on ABC’s Home Economics. She’s also due to co-star alongside Kathryn Hahn in the upcoming Marvel Cinematic Universe series, Agatha: Coven of Chaos, for Disney+. Sasheer sat down with me earlier this summer before the actors went on strike, talking about her early days and nights improvising with Nicole Byer, working for Disney as a mascot in college, how her SNL time prepared her for what has come next, including her decision to release her second stand-up comedy special, The First Woman, with 800 Pound Gorilla Media and YouTube.
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This transcript has been edited and condensed only slightly for your convenience.
Last things first: I know you're in Los Angeles now. Have you performed at the “new” UCB?
I actually have, yeah. It still looks like the old one.
I mean, it's the same building, new owners. Does it feel any different?
I think it's like a little glitzier. I think they have like a new computer check-in system and there's more rules, I think, other than like, you can just walk in and do what you want feel of it. I think those things are different. But in general, like the performances are all still same and still a place where you can like, cultivate new weird things onstage and have people come see it. Yeah, I think it's still good, still got some of the UCB spirit in there.
Part of the reason it has new owners, though, is because it felt like it needed a new spirit. And, you know, I admit, my question was kind of leading, it was kind of a loaded question because my first knowledge of you was through the wonderful improv trio Doppelganger, which if my memory serves me correctly, had to come up outside of UCB before getting accepted within UCB.
This is very true. Yeah, we all auditioned for House teams, didn't make it. It was me, Nicole Byer, Keisha Zollar. And we were performing together on our own and we were like, You know what? Let's just do our own thing. And so we started just crushing it at other shows and hosting our own shows. And then we were doing Cage Match, which is like a competition between two different teams and the audience votes on who they want to see next week. And we had like a summer tear. And I think people at the theater were kind of like, Oh, these women are undeniably great. Maybe they should be here. So then, eventually, we got our own slot at the theater, which was really, really cool.
So how long did it take the three of you to perform outside of UCB before you were accepted into Cage Match, and then part of the theater proper?
I think not that long. I feel like maybe a year, or maybe shorter. I can't remember. But we made waves pretty quickly.
So where were you performing in that first year when you had to find stages?
Gosh, we found some random place in Brooklyn. Some weird art space that had a very spacious hall where we could set up chairs and we just did shows there. We shared that space with the sketch group called Boat. And yeah, we would have these like fun shows slash parties and then we’d just perform anywhere else like Triple Crown. Oh, we also had a residency in some random theater in the theater district. I really can't remember what it was. But we would perform anywhere, just like if you have a bathroom that's big enough we’ll perform there. We were just hungry to be onstage.
I know you're involved with like ACLU Women's Rights Program and your special. talks a lot about rethinking women as equal members of the human race. So it just reminds me of how you Keisha and Nicole had to fight to be accepted, and how UCB overlooked the three of you. They initially overlooked Abbi and Ilana from Broad City. Even though Amy Poehler is one of the great UCB4 members, they had like a pretty abysmal track record when it came to opening the doors fully.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's like, when people choose successors or people under them, they usually pick people who remind them of themselves or like someone's sensibility that seems similar to them. And if a lot of the people who are making decisions are men, or white men, they may not be able to expand their viewpoint wide enough to see that other art or other types of humor are valuable to that stage. And thankfully, you know, we got rejected but then we did get accepted and I think you know, eventually things changed, and they’ve changed a lot now like I go to UCB now and see so much diversity, which is so beautiful, and hopeful. But yeah, it took some time to get there and I think once you see a lot of diversity succeeding then you're like, Oh, well, we’ve got to get on board other or else we're gonna be like a dinosaur. We’ll be behind the times.
So I can't say that I can take credit. But I also can't say that I can't take credit, for getting Jason Zinoman, he was the newly installed comedy critic at the New York Times. One of the first times I saw him in person was at the “press conference” for the 2012 Del Close Marathon. And after that ended, he was going to get up and go, and I said, you should stick around. There's some great groups. And Doppelganger had the 6:30pm Friday slot and he stayedm and he watched you three, he watched Stepfathers. And then he ended up like writing a whole thing about The Stepfathers. And then a few months later, singled you out specifically when he first wrote about Saturday Night Live.
Yeah, yeah, well, you know what, thank you for your contribution.
I’m an ally. Or co-coconspirator.
I mean, yeah, UCB did wonders for my comedy career and the fact that people did go to that theater to look for talent or to look for what's happening or what's new or what's rising was incredible. And yeah, I mean, I think, thank goodness, people did see me and then there was a stir and like, people were talking about, like, what could be happening on SNL and, and also Anthony King, who was the artistic director when I started at UCB, talked to the producers at SNL and was like, ‘Hey, you guys should check out this improv group Doppelganger. They're really great. And like, you probably could use at least one or not all of them on the show.’ And, yeah, it kind of began that journey of auditioning for the show. We all auditioned, like, a couple years in a row and then eventually I got in 2014.
But I mean, the circumstances of your hiring, kind of like to segue with The First Woman like you weren't the first black woman on Saturday Night Live. But in a way, because of all the white-hot scrutiny, it must have felt like you sort of had to be the first woman even though you weren't?
Yeah, I think because it seemed like people like weren't paying attention. And all of a sudden they were. No one was like tracking how many black women were on the show until it like, became a thing and then they're like, oh, wait a minute. I actually don't remember how many there have been and why isn't there one on currently? Why is Kenan always wearing dresses? And so then there became this like, I don't know, you know, the news latches onto some things. People were like, yeah, why isn't there a black woman? So then SNL was like, we will work on this. I was already auditioning for the show at that point, but you know, but they decided to make it a sole thing where they would find a black woman that year. And it was actually a very fast audition process, compared to the other years. Like, I feel like I put together a tape in November and then December I went into the studio, met everybody, had the interviews, and then I think I knew in January, like the first week of January, and started the second week of January, which is not usually how that goes. But I think because there was such a public outroar about this, they wanted to move fast.
Right? And then, you know, historically, everyone who's been on the cast talks about how grueling and pressure-filled and neurotic or anxiety-ridden that first year can be because you're not only getting used to just the schedule of it, but you're also fighting for stage time. And there's this atmosphere — you can tell me if I'm completely wrong — but there's also this atmosphere where you're like I don't know if it's Lorne or I don't know who's creating the atmosphere, but there's this atmosphere where you're worried about your job security that whole time. Did you feel that even more so because of the circumstances of your hiring?
It's funny, I think because of the circumstances and because I got plopped into it in the middle of existing season. I don't think I had time to really process anything. So I think I felt things residually but like as it was happening, I just like was Go Go Go and so I actually had a pretty successful first season. I was in a lot of sketches. I was getting things on and, and yeah, it was a whirlwind. So I think the atmosphere you're talking about is there, and no one knows is creating it. No one. And there's also like not, I don't think it's on purpose. I think it just is a strange environment. And since you're hiring comedians, you're going to have people who are anxious and neurotic, so even if nothing's happening, I've definitely had weeks where I'm like, Oh, I'm being iced out. And that's like so not what's happening, because everyone's so involved with their own thing that it doesn't have anything to do with you. Really, by the end of my time there, I got to a very zen place where I was like, oh, none of this has anything to do with me. It can, but I don't have to like analyze everything that's happening and think that it's an attack or I’m wronged or like I'm on the shit list this week. Like there's really no rhyme or reason to any of it. And trying to predict anything will just drive you crazy.
So how did that zen-like attitude help you when you left to embark on what was life and you career gonna be like after the show?
Oh, it helped immensely. I mean, after I left that show, I felt like I could do anything. Like literally anything. I was like, the things that I've accomplished on this show. Anything is cake compared to that, and it did feel that way. I felt more comfortable like expressing my views because that's what you have to do on SNL. You have to pitch an idea. But then you have to defend it and like like say why you think it should be on the show. Not all the time. But like, I've had moments where I had to do that. So yeah, I felt very confident and like well, these are my views and this is how I feel about them. This is what I think would be good for the show. Or like having a clear idea of like, just production, because if you did get a sketch on the show, you were in charge of what the costumes looked like, you had say on what the set looked like. You had say on — you didn't direct the episode like the sketch, but you did kind of help produce it. So I do feel like that helped me get a larger scope on production in general. And yeah, I just feel like all those things I learned and put in my toolkit at SNL helped me for every single jump I’ve ever had after.
In talking about learning the business isn't doing things to you necessarily, or because of you. Your first stand-up special, Pizza Mind was for the streaming platform that we all know and love, and close to our hearts — Seeso — which you must have thought at the time was a great move because you were working at NBC, NBCUniversal owned and launched this platform.
Yeah, it made sense at the time.
But as someone who had Seeso done to you, what was your sense? Please make some sense out of Seeso to me or to my listeners?
Yeah, I think Seeso, you know, it was NBC’s attempt at a streaming service in a time where I think people were kind of tired of getting new streaming services. And even though new ones are still popping up, I just think it was a little nebulous for people to get and I still think it was a good idea. You know, it had so much comedy on there. But alas, things come and go and it went away, but then my special got put on Amazon Prime which is great because everyone has Amazon Prime. So I do feel like more people got to see it when it had a second coming on a different platform. But it was a thing that housed a lot of people’s stuff for a minute and then it just didn't.
I feel like with the current writers strike and the potential actors strike, which may or may not be happening when people listen to this a month from now, (WGA and SAG-AFTRA are both on strike currently!) that Seeso would have had a much better chance today with the way that the industry is kind of reorganizing and rethinking, it might have been one of those FAST channels.
Yeah, cuz I feel like other streaming sites tried it like Quibi, like you know, give me like little fast clips.
Was Quibi even a thing? (he asks sarcastically)
Yeah, it was quick bites. Obviously people love watching comedy, and it's all over TikTok. It's all over Instagram Reels are really big. So if you can give like little doses or chunks people will find it. It was all in a place. It was all like in a place on Seeso there was comedy specials or comedy shows. Did they have Kids in the Hall?
They had Monty Python. Yeah, they tried to be like the new version of calm Comedy Central in terms of being a central place. For comedy. People didn't want to pay $3.99 for it. Which seems crazy now. Based on what people are willing to pay for everything else. Now the infrastructure is built for advertising, so they might have been able to make it part of Peacock even.
This is true. Peacock as a whole thing I think is doing well.
Was that part of the calculus for you to do this new special with 800 Pound Gorilla Media and YouTube?
Yeah, I feel like the first time around. I'm so proud of my first special. I just felt a little helpless when it came to the control of my special, because it did bounce around. There was no really like infrastructure or like language around what happens if this network is defunct? So it kind of got passed around to a few different platforms. And I didn't have a say in that. And so this time around, I really wanted more ownership of it. And 800 Pound has been great about like, letting me have control and also they've done this a lot where they've helped people produce specials and self-release it and yeah, I'm excited to do it in a way that feels like I know exactly what's happening. I know where it's gonna go. I know how much money I spent. I know why I spent the money. It feels so much different than the first time around where I had other people telling me what was happening with the work that I created.
It's kind of like you say in the new special I never have to experience these things again.
Yes. Yeah. I learned.
You learned all your lessons the hard way. Learning these things so you don’t have to repeat them.
Yeah, yeah, I did learn a lot from the first experience and then I learned there was a lot of things I didn't want to do again, so I am very excited about this new version of releasing my content to people and excited to see what happens.
Not to give too much away, but halfway through the special, you talk about the importance and the need to normalize conversations about women's health and bodily autonomy. Shall I say.
That's a great way to phrase it. Yes.
I don't know why I still have this memory from junior high school. Maybe because I didn't fit in so it was perhaps my first bit of empathy for my classmates who didn't fit in, but I have this distinct memory of one of my eighth-grade classmates and how she was just bullied and ostracized. People called her Barbie, because apparently she had experimented with a Barbie doll. And to think well, that's what life was like in 1983, and 40 years later, to see and hear you onstage. Just kind of embracing the lint roller or broomstick.
Literally embracing it.
You talk about it, you joke about it, you embrace it, but then you get the audience to talk about — so, for me like 40 years later, see and witnesses this, is like, Oh my God, I wish that young girl from my class could see this.
Yeah, I do too! I do feel like I love getting the audience involved with that and asking. Yeah, like what have you sexually, like experimented with because we don't talk about it that much. And we should because it's so normal. But women's sexuality and sexual health has been so secretive and demonized and you shouldn't feel bad because you're curious. And I actually do feel like in different crowds that I've had, where I asked people tell me what you've used before. I get young people who are really excited to say something and I get older women too, who are like, I've never told anyone this, or like I never I guess I have used something but I tucked it deep down in a part of my brain
But yeah, it's nice to be able to like recall those memories and be like, Oh, I wasn't weird for that. That's like, normal human behavior. And we should be curious and we should be talking about this because there are so many societal strain strange or laws that are trying to restrict our knowledge of our own bodies. And I don't think that's healthy for anybody.
Do you get the sense not just when you perform this for the special but as you're performing on the road, do you get the sense that like, veneration generationally, the girls and the people of Gen Z are, are more open about this kind of stuff?
Definitely. Yeah, it definitely seems like the younger generations are almost like aggressive, aggressively open. They probably have been raised by people who were shamed when they were younger. And so I think there's an active reversal of that, like, like a shedding of needing to feel shame. We can talk about this, we can be open in this household. So we're, it's creating younger people who are who are radically open and I think that's so beautiful and lovely. And I can't wait to see how that changes the world because it already is. There already are people like changing policy and being active in their own community because they don't see a problem with that, because they think that's actually a normal thing to do. And I think that's beautiful.
We're also kind of starting to rethink other things. Not just around sexuality and gender, but also I’m thinking about how there's Disney has a new live action version of The Little Mermaid.
Yeah, I saw that.
And I wondered what you thought as someone who in college worked for Disney.
Yes, yeah, I was a character performer.
Did you ever get to be the Little Mermaid?
I certainly never got to be the Little Mermaid, and I was there just a hair before The Frog Princess came out so I couldn't be Tiana. I did play a padewan in the Jedi Training Academy. So that was the one time my face could be out. Otherwise, I was Pluto or Eeyore. But I think it’s beautiful. I watched The Little Mermaid, it was one of my favorite movies as a kid. And so I wanted to see this reiteration of it and I thought it was so cool to see not only a black girl playing Ariel, but like so many different races throughout the whole movie. Cuz why not? It's already fantasy. It’s already fake. Like may as well put anyone in there and and then when I went to the theater, I saw all these little black girls with dolls and costume and stuff, like they were just an awe at what they were seeing onscreen. And I think that's so lovely and beautiful because it just adds to the magic and adds to the possibility of what you think can be possible. And I think I would have loved that if I was a kid.
So when you were actually working at Disney, did you feel like you could be anyone or did you feel like you were pigeonholed because of your race or your gender? That you could only be certain people even within a fantasy world.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, they are. Disney has a pretty like set thing. Although I'm pretty sure one of my friends who is a black woman was Tinkerbell one time, which was so cool. And so I think they are like, opening up some of the bounds that they have created over the years. It's a huge corporation. So I'm sure for years and years and years they were like we have to set it this way because this is what the fans are used to. I mean, like we had training where everyone had to sign the signature the exact same because if someone who came 10 years ago brings their autograph book. They want the Pluto signature to match the signature they get today so there's a lot of strict rules they have, but I do think that they are trying to open up some of the diversity and the things that they're allowing in front of the camera and back behind, too.
Who would you want to play in the Disney world now?
That's a good question. I always liked Jasmine, from Aladdin.
Well, I mean, as I asked the question, though, you already are in the Disney fantasy world. You're part of the Marvel Universe, in two different shows is that right?
Yeah, I play Adria who is Moon Girl's mom in the series Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur and that's a very fun cartoon which I also would have loved when I was a kid just like a 13-year-old black superhero on roller skates with Afro puffs like that’s so cool. And then I also am in the WandaVision spin off. We don't have a title yet but as of now has been Agatha and The Coven of Chaos but yeah, it's like perfect. It feels so right. Because it's like so witchy and spooky and woman and sexy and gritty. It's like so much that’s like up my alley. And yeah, it's truly a dream job.
Have you told Kathryn Hahn or any of the other people on set about the reality of the broomsticks?
I have. Yes, I have. (laughs)
Did they? Do they incorporate that into the series at all?
Unfortunately, no. I actually talked to the creator of the show and she was like we are also aware of that fact, and we did try to think about how to put it into the show but it doesn't really fit and also this is still Disney.
One of the things that you also talked about in your special is getting people to rethink Amelia Earhart, which I apparently hadn't thought enough about it. You really educated me on that. But I also wonder are you also hoping that people rethink Sasheer Zamata?
Oh, that's a really good question. Yeah! I am because I think people you know, they see me play different characters in different shows or they know me from SNL or whatever. But I feel so like, strongly in my voice right now. Even compared to my last special. I just, I feel like I've evolved as a person and my comedy has evolved to a place that I feel really proud of. So yeah, I would like people to watch this and get a better idea of me as the person, as the comedian, as the storyteller. And yeah think of me as this person. As this Sasheer Zamata.
How important has it been that 12 years after starting Doppelganger as an independent improv comedy trio that you and Nicole are still so buddy buddy, even if you’re on different paths?
It's the best. I mean, we still work together. We have a podcast called Best Friends where we talk about friendship. And yeah, it's so wonderful that we literally started in the same place and our careers have grown together and next to each other concurrently, and it's also just important to have somebody who like, gets it through and through, who like knows where you came from and sees where you are and can give you advice or take advice or commiserate with. It's beautiful, and I'm so glad that we've had each other for this ride.
I haven't been your best friend for the ride, but I've enjoyed watching it from afar. So Sasheer, thank you again for joining me and congrats once again on the new special.
Thank you. I really appreciate it.